(no subject)

[pensnest]

Isn't it frustrating when you get into a story that is, generally speaking, well written, has an interesting premise and some snappy dialogue, but the dialogue tags are so unrelentingly WRONG that it's hard to keep up the will to read?

Like this:

“Is that why you came here?” She asked, “I had already let out match sit for a week and half without refusal.”


I… just can't. And, well. It's on AO3, with no mention of a beta reader, but these days I don't know that leaving what I would call Useful Information in the comments would be well received. I mean, the gist of it would be, ur doing it rong, so even politely put, would the author accept the information, ignore it, or set up a jihad?

Back when I generally read fic on LJ, it was possible to send a discreet message. Is there a way to contact AO3 authors, other than via comments?

Comments

[gwenhwyfar1984]

I can tell you right now that leaving grammar critiques in comments will probably upset and embarrass the author no matter how nicely it is put. Or how graciously it is replied to. Things like that can make an author never want to write again.

[pensnest]

Yeah, that's really what I was thinking. I didn't *want* to put it out there in public - I'd offer to beta, if they'd like a beta this long after the story was first posted, which I guess they probably wouldn't. I'm not sure I'd want to re-edit a story I published several years ago either, so.

I'm reminded of some more, ahem, old school fans who pointed out, in a discussion of 'what kind of feedback can you leave' that people who would be put off writing by having errors pointed out should... maybe get over themselves? I've always been grateful to people who point out typos in my work, and if I misused a word or phrase or got the idiom wrong I would want someone to tell me!

Beginners should be encouraged, of course. To me, telling someone how to do it right *is* encouragement - I mean, if I didn't think they were telling a good story, I wouldn't even be interested in taking the time and trouble. But it's best left alone.

[gwenhwyfar1984]

Eh? I've edited things I've written years ago if I discover something myself and my beta missed.

I'm reminded of some more, ahem, old school fans who pointed out, in a discussion of 'what kind of feedback can you leave' that people who would be put off writing by having errors pointed out should... maybe get over themselves?

This makes my blood boil.
No. No, no, no. These people don't know what it took for the author to post their work. Yes, there are people who don't care or think they're the best ever. But they don't know if English is not their first language, if they have a disability, if they have severe anxiety, if they have brain damage due to injury? They. Don't. Know. So no, they don't need to "get over themselves!

[pensnest]

I've had a long think about this, and composed all sorts of replies, but I think what it comes down to is that nobody knows how an author will react to concrit—and it doesn't really matter if the author in question comes from a vulnerable place or from a secure one. Anyone can be hurt by critique. It shouldn't be so, as critique refers to the work, not to the person producing it, but of course I know as well as you that (a) sometimes 'critique' isn't about the work, it's just nasty, and (b) our stories are personal to us. I mean, I still remember the sick feeling I got when I got my first beta back, years and years ago. I thought I'd written the best story I could, and I had asked the toughest person I could find to beta it, but still...

What I *think* is what really saddens me here is that there are two kinds of authors: writers who want to improve their work, and writers who aren't interested in doing that. There is no way of telling who is in which camp. (And the people writing in a foreign language, or the people with a disability, or severe anxiety, or even brain damage, could be in either camp, too.) But because we can't tell, we default to 'offer no critique', which means the ones who want to improve don't get the opportunity. My own writing has improved *so* much because people have cared enough to tell me what I'm getting wrong - I want to pass it on. And when I see someone who's got the ability to write a good story but needs help, and I can't offer for fear of either upsetting this person or bringing down all kinds of misery on myself, it makes me sad.

[rikes]

You can tell, though. If they didn't ask for concrit, they're not looking for it. (I do regularly see authors asking for concrit on AO3.) They're sharing their work for free, and are not obligated to want to improve, or be held to a random stranger's standards.

No way to contact an author on AO3 other than public comments, and that is on purpose.

[pensnest]

I have to admit, I don't recall ever noticing someone asking for concrit on AO3. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to write stories and share them without wanting to do further work on them. I guess I'm actually being selfish here, because I don't deal well with writing that has this kind of errors in it, and I want more stories I can read!

But I won't be contacting the author.

[watervole]

I wouldn't comment publically on grammar, but I'd be tempted to send a private message (if that can be done) asking if they'd like a proof reader.

[pensnest]

Trouble is, I can't see a way of sending a private message, or that would be my choice, too.

[sixbeforelunch]

I don't think there's any way to contact someone on AO3 other than comments, no. I understand why there's no PM system there, but it does sometimes leave you in the lurch if you'd like to tell the author something without putting them on blast. :-/

I mostly agree with the person above me re: leaving grammar critiques in the comments. There are authors who would be okay with it, but it's probably not worth the risk of either really upsetting someone who is still unsure about their writing, or else triggering some bully to send their minions after you.

[pensnest]

That's what I thought, really. It's a pity, because the author can tell a story.

[vae]

Maybe check their profile and see if they've listed their presence on any other sites? I know a fair few authors will list Twitter/Tumblr/other social media sites there.

[pensnest]

Sadly, nothing. Ah well. Saves me the trouble of being useful, doesn't it!

[conuly]

If it's any consolation, that particular error may come down to faulty auto-correct rather than bad writing habits.

[pensnest]

Yikes! You know... that's horrifying, isn't it!

[chalcopyrite]

I was going to say, when I'm typing on my phone, it will do things like that. It's maddening.

[pensnest]

I am resolute in doing all my writing in TextEdit, which contents itself with underlining spellings it isn't happy with. I can grammar!

[chalcopyrite]

Unfortunately, whoever(s) programme Autocorrect cannot. As a person who punctuates text messages, it makes me foam gently at the mouth.

[turlough]

This is why the first thing I do when I get a new phone/tablet/computer is to TURN OFF auto-correct!

[melita66]

Dropping by via James Nicoll's reading list...

If it is easy to leave a contact for you without allowing a bot to scrape it, ask the author to contact you?

[pensnest]

That's a thought. Thanks!

[brandywine28]

Ooooh, baby. I've fantasized about doing this **so many** times. Never actually bitten the bullet, though.

Usually, when I encounter this kind of thing, I can pacify myself with the idea that the writer might either be young (very young. Very, veeeerrrry young. A slash-loving fetus!) or possibly not a native English speaker. A few weeks ago, in the middle of an amazing fic, I came across the word 'shpeel'. Shpeel. What the hell is that, I ask you? But when I got to the comments, someone had beaten me to asking about it and it turned out that the writer was, like, incredibly Midwestern and had never seen 'spiel' written down before -- didn't even know it was Yiddish in origin, just thought it was some weird slang word she'd heard on TV. She was really well-spoken, though, and definitely knew how to write a fic. It happens! The culture clash is real!

(And yet...I mean. I'm about as sensitive as a person can be, and I still can't imagine I'd be emotionally destroyed by a tiny bit of friendly writing advice. Not judging! Just saying!)

[pensnest]

Now, I've learned something today - I never thought about 'spiel' being Yiddish (I just read it as German). But it makes sense. Yiddish has provided the English language with many excellent words! Still, I can imagine that someone would know the word and not how to spell it, as it's not something you'd often see in books.

The example above, though, should not happen when the writer has actually read books! But the horrifying thought that some kind of autocorrect is betraying the poor author... well.

I mean. Yes. I agree with you - a little bit of friendly writing advice really oughtn't to traumatise anyone. But there's advice and advice, and... this is a question that used to come up quite often in meta situations.

I acquired, several years ago (I may have mentioned this!) copies of a zine review zine called 'Psst! Hey kid, wanna buy a fanzine', published by Marty Siegrist. It was fairly brutal, and therefore great fun to read—and also, educational! I *think* I may have sent them a copy of my own zine, but possibly not, or possibly there was never an issue #7 for a review to appear in. The LoCs were also very entertaining, being full of the outraged feelings of certain zine publishers who were not, in my own experience of submitting to them, putting out great product.
But they consoled themselves for bad reviews by having lots of sales, anyway.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be a fanfic writer who just wants to write the story and have people read it and leave happy comments. No ambitions to become a better writer, no embarrassment at the thought of typos or grammatical errors, just the fun of thinking up a story and writing it down. Frankly, I think J K Rowling is one of this group.

Because for some of us (I wonder what the proportions are?) it is important to either get it right or improve, or both. Being of the latter kind, I tend to assume that people who can tell a story also want to get the language right, etc. Lord, if I were a published writer I would beg for editing!

If we could only identify ourselves (honestly) as wanting or not wanting concrit, the above situation would not arise. I could have confidently offered my services, or decided without regret to stay well clear.