never had the least notion

[pensnest]

I've started following the random_fandom_meta_feed. I've always enjoyed reading meta — but. BUT.

The most interesting part about meta posts is the discussion that follows in the comments. And most of these are links to Tumblr posts which present a statement with no visible discussion. No doubt those more familiar with Tumblr than I am (ie everybody) will tell me that the discussion is happening, because people reblog and (I assume) add their own thoughts, etc, etc. Indeed, I have found a few which have discussion... no idea how, but they have managed it. Yay. I long ago gave up trying to say anything to a Tumblr post. Yes, I am old.

Dreamwidth however, is an *excellent* place for posting meta, because discussion can happen immediately, in the comments to that very post, and you can even track them if you want to. No need for an account, just find a name you're willing to sign to your posts.

Also noted: 36 is Old, in fandom. Uh huh.

Also also noted: who the heck is 'trying to shut down AO3'??

*

What the FUCK, Firefox?

My top-of-page bookmark menu, carefully curated over many years, just disappeared. Bookmarks were locatable but not in their proper places, and Beast could not figure out how to put them back. Slightly to my amazement, restarting Firefox has restored them. But am now deeply suspicious.

*

I'm so glad I posted my Yuletide story on the 17th, since it turned out the deadline was nine o'clock in the morning on the 18th, my time. Which is fine, and I should probably have checked sooner, but I'd kinda expected it to be an American time zone which would have meant that posting this morning would have been fine. Phew!

*

Was supposed to be having a convivial lunch with some of my fellow chorus members today, in a pub. Quite glad to find it has been cancelled, since spending a couple of hours in the same room as a bunch of pub-goers does not strike me as a good idea. Will be able to attend neighbour's party this afternoon instead—which is being held in the garden. Much more sensible.

Comments

[smallhobbit]

Firefox recently did an update which ditched all my logins - sigh!

[pensnest]

Oh lawd, that would be Even Worse!

[yarnofariadne]

Tumblr's always been horrible for discussion, and not least because its demographic seems allergic to nuance and thoughtful conversation.

Your bookmark scare reminded me to back mine up, it turns out I haven't done that since March!

[pensnest]

There is a lot of

Firm Statement Of Opinion As Fact

followed by

likes and reblogging

None of which makes much sense to me. On the rare occasions I tried to offer something meta, I did my best to think - what will The Incredibly Intelligent and Clear-Headed Fans Think, before I'd dare post! I miss metafandom. I learned so much there!

[author_by_night]

The most interesting part about meta posts is the discussion that follows in the comments. And most of these are links to Tumblr posts which present a statement with no visible discussion.

Oh, that's always SO frustrating. I think DW is perfect, and the LJ model is different (were it not for the Russians), but sadly there really isn't much meta here. Except for Firefly, interestingly. I posted about Firefly a year ago and my inbox exploded with notifications. I actually burst out laughing. Lovingly, of course. :) I think it's partly that everyone's fandoms are so different. A few of my friends have posted a lot meta, but I have no idea what they're talking about. It's the same with book or movie reviews, honestly - I love those posts, but if I haven't read those books or seen those movies, I don't really know what to say.

I did a quick google search, and it seems Ao3 is banned in China? But that's all I can find. I really hope no one's trying to shut down Ao3. I've only recently really gotten into it - I've been posting there for ages now, but before it was more of a place to store fics I didn't want to lose elsewhere, whereas now I'm an active participant in a new fandom.

I think age depends on the fandom. I haven't taken any formal census, but while there are a few college aged kids in my fandom (Schitt's Creek), I'd say we tend to skew early 30's-early 50's. There's a hefy tumblr presence though, and I'd be curious to know the ages of people on tumblr.

Glad you got your Yuletide fic posted!

Yeah, I'm with you on gatherings. I'm okay with going to restaurants if there's a lot of space, but a pub isn't exactly going to have a lot of space. Plus, it's a matter of who's been vax'd. I hung out with friends last night, but we've all been vax'd so I know we're not going to get one another sick.

[minoanmiss]

I really hope no one's trying to shut down Ao3.

No one in the West really is. There is a fandom movement called "antis", short for "antishippers", who want to shut down AO3 because it won't ban any kind of content including those they disapprove of, but they don't have the power to do so. (Unfortunately, a lot of fans of AO3 accuse anyone with any criticisms of AO3 of being an antishipper, leading to much unhappiness, not least in a recent discussion of racism and AO3.)

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Anti-shipper

(also, being in one's 30s is not actually old for fandom, but there is another movement in Tumblr fandom, overlapping with the antis, of teens and early-20somethings who loudly say fandom should only be for the young. I'm trying to ignore them.)

[pensnest]

Ahhhh. Yes. I suppose the real answer is always, It's complicated. I suppose the term 'don't like, don't read' is too old-fashioned these days.

Fandom is a jolly good place in which to grow up, I found.

[author_by_night]

No one in the West really is. There is a fandom movement called "antis", short for "antishippers", who want to shut down AO3 because it won't ban any kind of content including those they disapprove of, but they don't have the power to do so

Ahh. Karens of fandom. ;)

I'll admit there are some types of fics I... seriously side-eye, but whatever. I don't get it so I just don't read it.

but there is another movement in Tumblr fandom, overlapping with the antis, of teens and early-20somethings who loudly say fandom should only be for the young.

What some of them should also keep in mind - not that I actually expect any of them to be reasonable - is that a lot of us got into fandom when we were that age. Not all of us of course, but many. I was a teenager when I first found fandom. Just saying, it's not like they invented fandom and then "old people" took over.

[pensnest]

I figure I have had three adolescences. The first was probably the least fun, with actual spots and fretting about boys, etc. The second was when I discovered Star Trek:TNG in my early thirties. The third started when I was 45 and found popslash!

Sometimes I am still disconcerted to find I am not 23. But if fandom should be 'only for the young', who's going to write the good stories? gd&r

[pensnest]

It is difficult nowadays with *so* many fandoms. Anything specific to one is going to be meaningless to someone who doesn't follow it. Back when I joined LJ (2005) there were perhaps half a dozen biggies, and one learned quite a bit about them by osmosis.

Still, Firefly? Are there any Firefly comms?

I had an idea that there was some kind of youthful movement to bring down some of the aspects of fandom which have been going on for a long time. Perhaps AO3 is an obvious target, having been created as a Bloody Big Tent that will accommodate all kinds of things that can be objected to by someone. I remember AO3 being born, and remember that before it, the alternatives were things like Geocities. Hah.

We had a very pleasant time at a gathering this afternoon, in someone's back garden, where they had hung (high) a parachute (!), and produced a fire in a pit over which wine was mulled. Most civilised.

[author_by_night]

Back when I joined LJ (2005) there were perhaps half a dozen biggies, and one learned quite a bit about them by osmosis.

Same here. I never saw more than a few episodes of Supernatural, yet I was able to follow discussions pretty easily. And watch episodes in later seasons because I already knew so much from LJ.


Still, Firefly? Are there any Firefly comms?

Sadly, I don't think so. There weren't any active communities I tried years and years ago, and I've probably scoped since. But I also missed the boat, getting into it around the time people were giving up on the notion that Firefly would ever come back.

Glad you had a pleasant gathering!

[pensnest]

I remember the most fabulous popslash writers were moving to Stargete:Atlantis or Supernatural, which always struck me as a shame. Later there were American Idol and bandom. But not nine thousand tiny fandoms!

I think I was floundering in a mostly fandom-free place while Firefly was really a Thing, and never found my way to it. I'm pretty sure if I'd found the fandom I would have ended up writing for the show. My beloved Wash! Ah well.

[southerncontinentskies]

The "people trying to shut down AO3" issue I'm (sadly) familiar with is the crowd of (mostly) teenagers on tumblr who think the presence of fics warranting the "Underage" tag, and AO3's accommodation of same, means that AO3 is a hotbed of child porn and encourages pedophilia and CSA, and should therefore be taken offline immediately in order to Save The Children.

So far as I'm aware, it's less a serious effort and more social media outrage. But since the context is tumblr posts, I'm betting that's ultimately what was being referenced.

[minoanmiss]

Ahahah I should have read your comment before writing my own tl;dr one. *thoroughly agrees*

[pensnest]

Perhaps they should be encouraged to join LiveJournal. Hah.

[ephemera]

I am a bear of little brain at the moment, and I just cannot with tumblr - I have a few people who's tumblr's I follow as RSS feeds, but the prospect of attempting to engage there just does not compute...

Congratulations on completing Yuletide! (Can I ask what fandom, or is that verboten until reveal?)

I hope the garden party is fun!

[pensnest]

I have never been able to deal with Tumblr, outside of reading an occasional recced page. Once, long ago, I tried to do my fannish duty and leave some praise on an art post - I think at that time Tumblr was actually being used for visuals rather than written stuff, which made sense. Anyway, I couldn't figure it out, so meh.

I... don't know if I'm allowed to say which fandom, but it's not one I've written before!

The garden party was good. They had a parachute (!) acting as a roof, a firepit, and lots of stumps to sit upon, though most people stood. I began to re-think my wishes for my redesigned garden.

[cathexys]

I had the exact same response when I was looking at the posts. I want the conversations, not someone ranting, lecturing, even metaing...

And I also try not to laugh when someone declares themselves a fandom old because they remember early Tumblr :)

[pensnest]

I remember alt.startrek.creative, and even *creaks towards grave* actual zines. But there were those who came before....

[frausorge]

Yikes, I'm glad the Firefox stuff could be restored - sounds like a very unpleasant scare!

And go you meeting the deadline all unawares!

Open air events really are where it's at. I hope the party was fun!

[pensnest]

I'm so used to deadlines being in American Time, ie late in the day for me, that I just assumed! I'd have been so cross with myself if I'd failed to post the thing in time. Perhaps that will teach me to check, another time!

I did begin to feel a twinge of 'why didn't I specify an outdoor entertaining place in my new garden plan', but really, I can put a few nice benches out wherever. It does look as though outdoor entertaining is the way to go.

[turps]

I've been reading about your neighbour's party in comments. It sounds fantastic.

[pensnest]

She actually runs a kind of playschool in her garden three days a week, so there were activities here and there. Some of the kids were winding bread dough round sticks and cooking it over the firepit! (It actually smelled like bread. Awesome!) So it was well set up for entertaining people.

[turlough]

Tumblr is so totally unsuitable for any sort of discussion and even more so the more thoughtful sort that meta requires.

I'm glad restarting Firefox brought back your bookmark menu. I'll keep my fingers crossed it will stay where it is now! (This is one of the reasons I never let any program do automatic updates. I want to know how to counteract any changes before they happen!)

That was very fortunate for you! (I've seen so many Americans complaining of Yuletide having UTC for their deadlines.)

I see from comments that the garden party at your neighbour's was a great success, yay!

[pensnest]

When Tumblr got started it seemed to be used as a way to share graphics, for which it was quite well suited - but discussion? No!

I can't remember whether the Yuletide admins actually pointed out that the time was (a) morning in Europe and (b) middle of the night before in America, but if they didn't, I do rather feel they should have done!

Perhaps we shall have to do Camp actually in tents.........